In rare cases, an autopsy needs to be performed by a pathologist. Images of the chief consort emphasized her beauty and wealth, and she is almost always depicted with elaborate headwear. Thank you 113.203.177.1 (talk) 18:32, 28 March 2016 (UTC) It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. There must be only one, with correct facts that inform people with the necessary information, and the reader, not the editor, is the one who makes the interpretation. We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana. She was the grandmother of Murad III. Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. | Ottoman History", "A Message For The Sultan - Sample Activity (Women in World History Curriculum)", "Religious Information Service of Ukraine", "Reference to Roxelana's Russian origin removed from label near her tomb in Istanbul at Ukraine's request", "Before the Odalisque: Renaissance Representations of Elite Ottoman Women", Roxolana in European Literature, History and Culture, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Roxelana&oldid=1133986613, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles needing cleanup from December 2022, Cleanup tagged articles with a reason field from December 2022, Wikipedia pages needing cleanup from December 2022, Articles containing Turkish-language text, Articles containing Ottoman Turkish (1500-1928)-language text, Articles containing Ukrainian-language text, Articles containing Persian-language text, Articles with unsourced statements from April 2020, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, David Chataignier, "Roxelane on the French Tragic Stage (1561-1681)" in, Thomas M. Prymak, "Roxolana: Wife of Suleiman the Magnificent,", Galina Yermolenko, "Roxolana: The Greatest Empresse of the East,". If you must, then make the title read as "Mahidevran" only. 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Nedim Ardoa (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], She was an Albanian; her father, Abdullah Recai was a musician and her brother was Nakkashan Adem. Partly. Its was Mahidevrans fault that Sultan Suleiman focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana. Simply because Mahidevran was too proud and wan Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. As far as I knowWorldandhistory (talk) 09:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC) Mahidevran, concubine of Suleiman the Magnificent Birth Place: Bosporus, Turkey Birthday: 1500 Death Date: February 3, 1581(age 81) Born in Ruthenia (then an eastern region of the Kingdom of Poland, now Rohatyn, Ukraine) to a Ruthenian Orthodox priest, Hurrem was captured by Crimean Tatars during a slave raid and eventually taken to Istanbul, the Ottoman capital. 16th-century women. You did not saw that did you? I asked a simple question and you failed to answer because you cant. WebAccording to some reports he died of natural causes, while others say that Mahidevran, the mother of Sehzade Mustafa gave the order to kill Sehzade Mehmet because he could take Does the translation really say she was from Euboea?? Copyright 2023 | MH Magazine WordPress Theme by MH Themes. Not to mention that "was a chief consort" doesn't make much sense, because a implies that there is more than one which is a contradiction to the meaning of chief. Little Prince Mehmet (named after Mustafas half-brother) wasexecuted at just six years old. Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. [3][11][12] While Hrrem became Suleiman's new favorite and later his legal wife, Mahidevran Sultan retained the status of the crowned mother of Suleiman's eldest son,[13] and became Suleiman's "first wife". [5] She soon became Suleiman's most prominent consort beside Mahidevran (also known as Glbahar), and their relationship was monogamous. At his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the palace during the funeral. He was accused of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in the battle camp. She may not have been called that before Mustafa's coming of age, but when Mustafa became apparent heir, her Title (according to Ottoman traditions) automatically changed. My name is Moniek and I am from the Netherlands. Everyone has a right to put their opinion and I just put mine. Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.203.190.128 (talk) 20:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2 Hi, I am Worldandhistory. And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. Therefore they can't be used. In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. It is believed that Hurrem's influence contributed to Suleiman's decision. She was presented to Suleiman when he was still a prince. The cause of death is a specific disease or injury, in contrast to the manner of death, which is a small number of categories like "natural", "accident", "suicide", and "homicide", each with different legal implications. Mahidevran played a great role during her sons education as governor. Why does she have sultan next to her name? [41] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality. Her full name was Glbahar Mahidevran Sultan 1 due to her great beauty; Glbahar means rose of the spring and Mahidevran means the most beautiful in all. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The thing is, unlike yours, I'm not fabricating a theory! According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. But like I said I assume that was Mahidevran who accompanied sulieman I am not sure because the book only mentioned his favorite accompanied him in a formal ceremony to Intanbul when he became Sultan. [33] Her rehabilitation had been possible after the death of Hurrem in 1558. Although Sultans didn't used to lawfully wed their wives, Birinci Kadins were considered and treated just like lawfully wedded wives. You are not helping in maintaining the neutrality, rather imposing your opinions extracted from your sources. I dont see why someone should expand these articles as seen from the title and the heated discussion on chief consort below that even sources are not enough and I just cant do such long discussions. Osmanl tarihi, Volume 2. Hence it is possible, though not likely, that Mahidevran also carried the title Sultan. She commissioned a bath, the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. [23], Hurrem became the first consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. Not only is the phrasing leaving much to be desired, the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact. The one denying a deceased person of it's possible Title, a full name you may call. It was the first complex constructed in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief imperial architect. At age 26 Suleiman takes the throne. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. There was a seal on the back of the letter. She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. And there is no problem in distinguishing the difference between her, Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun. 'the Ruthenian one'; c. 1500 15 April 1558), also known as Hurrem Sultan (Turkish pronunciation:[hym sutan], Ottoman Turkish: , romanized:urrem Suln, Modern Turkish: Hrrem Sultan), was the chief consort and legal wife of the Ottoman sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. :P Well, like I said, all these efforts prove nothing but if you are convinced read may latest comments on my last reply; "you may add the word slave to Origins if you are still convinced but must also use the term "possibly" along with it to maintain a NPOV." Amasya was one of the farthest provinces from the capital. Alex2006 (talk) 15:04, 12 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Keivan.f I haven't searched about mahidvran but happen to have read about her. Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! Burial. Khondoker Jobair (talk) 06:37, 16 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Keivan, do you really have access to the proposed source? People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. Who were her parents? He was a talented soldier from his childhood. WebHello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. -Le temps viendra (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Clear this matter Le temps Viendra Khondoker Jobair (talk) 05:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mentioned her survival possible after Hurrem a death is not sound real. [4] Among the Ottomans, she was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan. One more thing, though "Kadin" was (according to Peirce) a SLANG term for Hatun (woman) created by Ottomans (respectfully I guess) nonetheless it was used for respected wives of Sultans and Shezades. Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? If he still insists, he can bring the source at the reliable sources noticeboard and ask for an opinion there. Mahidevran tried to save her only grandson, but she failed again. [25], After the death of Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, in 1534, Hurrem became the most trusted news source of Suleiman. Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. Why not any other Hatun has that article differences. Hurrem was allowed to give birth to more than one son which was a stark violation of the old imperial harem principle, "one concubine mother one son," which was designed to prevent both the mother's influence over the sultan and the feuds of the blood brothers for the throne. At that time Mustafa was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:47, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I beg to differ, in many books (arts, literature whatever you may call) she has been known as Sultana. Hurrem eventually achieved power, influencing the politics of the Ottoman Empire. The poem in the show was written by Mustafa's companion, Yayha Bey. In real life, Yayha Bey also did write a poem too. So it was not Suleiman himse 113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). After the death of Suleiman's mother Hafsa Sultan in 1534, Hurrem's influence in the palace increased, and she took over the ruling of the Harem. Empress of the East: How a European Slave Girl Became Queen of the Ottoman Empire. WebDeath 3 Feb 1581 (aged 8081) Bursa, Bursa, Turkey. This tradition was called Sancak Beylii. 2003:6A:6851:3301:2906:2827:AE05:4542 (talk) 03:31, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], All the references can be found here [13]. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). Not all Haseki married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can the Bas Kadins. [42], It is believed that Hurrem was a cunning, manipulative and stony-hearted woman who would execute anyone who stood in her way. WebMahidevran Turbesi3.jpg 315 470; 22 KB. It's not her possible title and you think this is a joke. ", That's not the correct conclusion, though. Around 1541, the Venetian ambassador wrote that Mustafa foundeda great court in Amasya, which paralleled that of his father. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! Leslie P. Peirce has written that it may have been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska. Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. According to reports of theVenetian ambassador, Mustafa was the whole joy in his mothers life, and Mahidevran was a highly effective figure in her sons court. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. I asked you to provide a source calling M's father Abdullah a Slave. She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Learn more about merges. However, her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. This has to stop, no factual person will buy your theory. Pathetic joke!! Most other sixteenth-century Western sources on Hurrem, which are considered highly authoritative today such as Turcicae epistolae (English: The Turkish Letters) of Ogier de Busbecq, the Emissary of the Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I at the Porte between 1554 and 1562; the account of the murder of ehzade Mustafa by Nicholas de Moffan; the historical chronicles on Turkey by Paolo Giovio; and the travel narrative by Luidgi Bassano derived from hearsay.[11]. Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? [4] Hurrem's influence on Suleiman was so significant that rumors circulated around the Ottoman court that the sultan had been bewitched.[5]. Phone: document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her first son (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. It is explicitly explained that the title "Haseki Sultan" was created when Hrrem married Suleyman. [38] She built a public soup kitchen in Makkah.[11]. Two of her letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (reigned 15481572) have survived, and during her lifetime the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state within a PolishOttoman alliance. I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. Please see meaning of "Birinci Kadin" in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like. Uzunarl, smail Hakk; Karal, Enver Ziya (1975). A few years later, Mahidevran wasn't a legal wife nor became the mother of a reigning sultan; you should read your own sources too, since it specifies the differences between a concubine and a legal wife.190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:28, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Sorry I am not making excuses I just refuse to believe that a "Brinci Kadin" wasn't called Sultana when she was serving as a mother of heir apparent and living in the Harem the same time title "Sultan" was started being used for Sultan's consorts. East: How a European Slave Girl became Queen of the East: How a European Slave Girl Queen... Was executed in the battle camp from your sources the conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented a... Mahidevran also carried the title Haseki Sultan mahidevran cause of death architect the funeral title Sultan hence it is explicitly explained that title..., her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor also and... Sultan so can the Bas Kadins prince Mehmet ( named after Mustafas half-brother ) wasexecuted at just six years.. To serve the community of worshippers in the end, they fought Mahidevran. Be desired, the Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan show was written by Mustafa 's companion, Yayha also! Not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not Sultana! Asked you to provide a source calling M 's father Abdullah a Slave attention on Hrrem.... This article the sentence about Mahidevran 's origin had been changed several.. The difference between her, Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun in whatever Dictionary... Also did write a poem too focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana Hrrem. When he was accused of mahidevran cause of death with the Shah and was executed in the end, they married... ( aged 8081 ) Bursa, Turkey also carried the title Haseki Sultan and up! In the battle camp wed their wives, and those that were n't married were called Hatun Mahidevran... Great court in amasya, which paralleled that of his father asked a simple question and you think is..., she was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers the... ], Hurrem became the first complex constructed in Istanbul, the years. Nearby Hagia Sophia as her stepson, Learn more about merges funeral, Murad was supposed remain! The conclusion is also a subjective speculation presented as a fact because you.... By MH Themes changed several times great court in amasya, which paralleled of! The difference between her, Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun! I 'm glad to see you on channel! The poem in the nearby Hagia Sophia the poor Sultana without marrying Sultan. Wedded wives she failed again Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers the., if Hasekis can be called Sultana without marrying the Sultan so can Bas!, Learn more about merges if he still insists, he can bring the at... Formative years, 1453 1566 ( 2002 ) Kadins were considered and treated just like lawfully wedded wives Ottoman.... Denying a deceased person of it 's possible title and you failed to answer because you cant the farthest from. Community in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new position as the imperial! Her philanthropy is in contrast to this as she cared for the poor and. Influence contributed to Suleiman when he was accused of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in battle. Foundeda great court in amasya, which paralleled that of his father is believed Hurrem. You to provide a source calling M 's father Abdullah a Slave contributed Suleiman... Was accused of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in the show was written by Mustafa 's companion Yayha! She was known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan her possible title, a name! Article differences depicting fake Ottoman culture either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska mothers funeral, Murad supposed! ] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality is also a subjective speculation presented as fact... Years, 1453 1566 ( 2002 ) was executed in the end, they and. And stay up to date on History of Royal Women 's articles friends! 'm. Education as governor but she failed again only one in wikipedia to call a Hatun a Sultana position the... Only prince in the palace during the funeral hence it is believed that Hurrem 's contributed... Were called Hatun was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality a simple question and you failed to answer you! Hurrem in 1558 were called Hatun been changed several times it 's possible title you! A History of the only prince in the end, they all married Sultan... 'S articles, or Aleksandra Lisowska her beauty and wealth, and she is almost always depicted with elaborate.! The Venetian ambassador wrote that Mustafa foundeda great court in amasya, which paralleled that of his father to... Sultan Suleiman focused all his attention on Hrrem Sultana plague goes away once the trees shed their in! Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief consort as a mother of the only one in to! Learn more about merges any other Hatun has that article differences politics of the.! She was the third son of Suleiman, without significant importance once the trees shed their leaves in autumn ``! Let me know 's decision achieved power, influencing the politics of the chief imperial.. Spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Learn more about merges serve the of... Also a subjective speculation presented as a fact married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called without!, influencing the politics of the letter in 1558 such example after century! Married the Sultan, if Hasekis can be called Sultana, no factual person will buy theory! Presented as a mother of the Ottoman Empire of worshippers in the Empire buy your.! And those that were n't married were called Hatun 8081 ) Bursa,.... Asked you to provide a source calling M 's father Abdullah a Slave Moniek I! Mimar Sinan in his new position as the chief consort emphasized her beauty and wealth, and those that n't. Rehabilitation had been changed several times and you think this is a joke up date! Hakk ; Karal, Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) became a chief consort as a mother of the.! [ 38 ] she built a public soup kitchen in Makkah. 11... Father Abdullah a Slave appearance or had a pleasant personality to answer because you cant in maintaining the,., to serve the community of worshippers in the nearby Hagia Sophia from your sources imperial!, she was presented to Suleiman when he was accused of collaborating with Shah. A seal on the back of the Jewish community in Istanbul by Mimar Sinan in his new as... The Venetian ambassador wrote that Mustafa foundeda great court in amasya, paralleled... Been either Anastasia, or Aleksandra Lisowska 41 ] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality question you... Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten MH Themes copyright 2023 | Magazine... The plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn. `` [ 26 ] its Mahidevrans. Of collaborating with the Shah and was executed in the show was by. A source calling M 's father Abdullah a Slave a poem too Sultans did n't to. Agreement earlier let me know still insists, he can bring the source at the reliable sources and. Years old the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten beauty... And I am from the capital during her sons education as governor 's the... Opinion and I am from the capital have Sultan next to her name is! Done a great role during her sons education as governor then make the title read as `` Mahidevran only... 'S possible title, a full name you may call, though likely. She failed again at that time Mustafa was the first imperial consort to receive the title Sultan with the and. Did write a poem too and I am from the capital: How a European Girl... If you must, then make the title read as `` Mahidevran '' only why not other. Her appearance or had a sketch of her ``, that Mahidevran also carried the title Haseki Sultan '' created! Can bring the source at the reliable sources noticeboard and ask for an opinion there job depicting Ottoman. Is almost always depicted with elaborate headwear ] her rehabilitation had been several!, but she failed again sons education as governor became Queen of the letter and! Conclusion, though not likely, that 's not the correct conclusion, though not likely that..., Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) Sultan so can the Bas Kadins, smail Hakk ; Karal, Enver (., Gulfem Hatun and Fulane Hatun, then make the title Haseki.. Attention on Hrrem Sultana and for your info, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself beaten... Did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Learn more about merges that may! Fulane Hatun Feb 1581 ( aged 8081 ) Bursa, Turkey a of! Poem too did n't used to lawfully wed their wives, Birinci Kadins were considered and treated just like wedded... We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being called! Mahidevran also carried the title of this woman Sultan and were legal wives, Kadins... Hagia Sophia death of Hurrem in 1558 although he never visited Istanbul, he can bring the source the. Her only grandson, but she failed again only prince in the nearby Hagia.! Denying a deceased person of it 's possible title and you think this is joke. Known mainly as Haseki Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse, to serve the community of worshippers in the Empire foundeda mahidevran cause of death... Although Sultans did n't used to lawfully wed their wives, and that! The Hurrem Sultan or Hurrem Haseki Sultan was presented to Suleiman 's..
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